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Messages - Gary

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1
Spin Zone / Re: The Memo
« on: February 04, 2018, 12:53:16 PM »
Quote from: bflynn on February 03, 2018, 09:02:39 PM
The memo outlines that Democrats used a political hit piece in order to justify initiating 100% surveillance of a campaign aide.  that means that him and everyone that he talked to not only were listened to, but also became targets of the surveillance.  The FBI and specifically people with extreme bias against Trump and loyalty to the Democrat party used the FBI's power to listen to everything that was happening in the Republican campaign.

If you're ok with that, then you're also ok with Republicans do the same in the midterms?

Why would I (or anyone else) be in favor of political spying by the FBI??  US Government surveillance of any US citizen is pretty serious stuff.  The bar to do so has to be very high.  That is the purpose of the FISA court.  The government prepares the case and the judge then decides if it is warranted.  In this particular case the judge did deem it appropriate.  None of us in the general public really has the facts as to why that happened. Could opposition research by a political party be part of that justification?  That could be the case, it is up to the FISA judge to evaluate the merits.  What the Nunes memo implies is that the only reason the FISA warrant was issued was the Steele documents and was done soley to discredit the President. From what we do know, that doesn't appear to be the case. Other than Mr. Nunes opinion, he gives scant detail to back it up, if Mr. Nunes has true evidence, why didn't he put it in the memo?  The surveillance order was renewed multiple times, most recently by people appointed by the current administration.  If there was some evidence of illegal activity by the FBI, why was it renewed?

Did the FISA order have limits?  Again, that isn't known, we do not know if the surveillance was limited to Page, or included any other contacts he may of had.  There is no information that the FBI had the ability to listen in on everything happening in the Republican campaign.

2
Spin Zone / Re: The Memo
« on: February 03, 2018, 03:21:30 PM »
James Comey summed up the Nunes memo the best -  “That’s it!??”

We were warned ahead of time that this would either be the greatest scandal since Watergate (per Steve King) or a collection of cherry picked incoherent facts (per Adam Schiff) which will destroy our national security.  It is neither.  Pretty much political drama.

The Nunes memo neither exonerates nor implicates the President.  It is all about surveillance of Carter Page, a person already on the FBI interest list.

It is rather fun to watch the President and his supporters do cartwheels and all kinds of mental gyrations to make this a huge deal and take the stretch that this nullifies the Mueller investigations.   The President himself has proclaimed that the Nunes memo:

“This memo totally vindicates “Trump” in probe. But the Russian Witch Hunt goes on and on. Their was no Collusion and there was no Obstruction (the word now used because, after one year of looking endlessly and finding NOTHING, collusion is dead). This is an American disgrace!”

The key point of the Nunes memo is that the FBI used the Steele documents without informing the FISA court that they were prepared by a political party and the veracity of the documents was in doubt.  Nunes provides no evidence of this other than his opinion, Nunes did not even look at the underlying data, although Trey Gowdy did and had this to say:

“As I have said repeatedly, I also remain 100 percent confident in Special Counsel Robert Mueller. The contents of this memo do not - in any way - discredit his investigation.”

Without actually seeing the FISA application and the discussions that went into granting it, it is impossible to tell if this claim of “bias” is true or not or whether the surveillance would have been granted in any case.  I have no idea if the rules of a FISA application allows for the use of information that has a political bias or is otherwise un-verified.  It does seem that the Steele documents were not the sole basis for granting the FISA surveillance, but even that is unproven.  Lacking some hard evidence that the FBI did something illegal or woefully un-ethical, the Nunes memo is short on fact and long on speculation.

One thing the Nunes memo does clarify is that the FBI investigation was not the result of the Steele documents, that investigation was already underway courtesy of George Papadopoulos.

So, let’s see it all, the Democratic response, the FISA application (properly redacted) and the full transcripts of the proceedings.

3
Spin Zone / Re: The FBI Scandal
« on: January 24, 2018, 12:55:53 PM »
Ok - I'm willing to be convinced! 

Think David French sums it up nicely.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455727/release-the-memo-and-evidence

Let's see it all, the President has the ability to do it, lay it all out there for everyone to see.

4
Spin Zone / Re: The Schumer Shutdown
« on: January 24, 2018, 12:38:53 PM »
Quote from: Anthony on January 24, 2018, 12:31:52 PM
I believe the R's gave the D's everything they wanted in three different proposals, and still got no from them.  The Dems wanted a government shut down so they could blame the Repubs.  I think that backfired.

Will agree that blame seems to be really important, there is enough of that to smear both sides.  So what exactly did the Repubs offer that the Dems wanted?  There certainly isn't a DACA solution.  There is another CR (a lousy way to run a government).  Mitch McConnel making some really fuzzy language on immigration reform.  The only thing concrete was funding for CHIP.

This whole charade will be repeated in three weeks.

5
Spin Zone / Re: Another step toward the totalitarian police State
« on: January 24, 2018, 12:32:46 PM »
Quote from: Jaybird180 on January 23, 2018, 04:00:59 AM
I learn on the news this morning that the County Council is voting today to add speed cameras on a major thoroughfare near my home. I’m against it.

They use safety as a buzzword to just lighten our pockets.

It’s obvious that I need to get more involved with local matters. I’d like you guys’ feedback and talking points so I can send something to my neighbors and local representatives.

Do you attend the Council meetings to voice your opinion... or better yet, organize some other residents to present an alternative plan?  Not sure how big your local governmental district is, but our local supervisors are VERY receptive to resident comments, particularly if there are a fair number banded together to present a unified position.  It's all about votes!!

6
Spin Zone / Re: They are still in denial
« on: January 24, 2018, 12:23:14 PM »
Pretty outlandish thinking, none of those things have even a remote possibility of happening.  Maybe the Professor was just thinking outside the box?

7
Spin Zone / Re: The Schumer Shutdown
« on: January 24, 2018, 12:20:15 PM »
Quote from: bflynn on January 23, 2018, 09:59:31 AM
I think the Dems got played by the master deal maker.  I mean, you aren't going to believe the deals that he is going to make.

The Republicans now put together a bill that is everything they want...full funding for the wall, a requirement to check status for every person arrested, a standard for how long a local force must hold a person before releasing them, penalties for non-compliance, increases to border security, etc. etc. etc.  Then they attach everything the Dems want and watch their heads explode when they cannot take Yes for an answer.

Yes, Chuckie got played.

How so?

What's changed from a week ago? 

We now have another CR, no real budget in sight, just a new deadline three weeks from now.

CHIP got funded, something Congress should have done months ago.

The Dems got some vague assurances that there will be some kind of DACA/immigration discussion.

Can't say much has changed although getting CHIP funded was important.  The Dems still have leverage in the Senate.  What is discouraging is that there is widespread support for solving the DACA issue, reforming immigration and moving on.  Yet both sides seem unwilling do actually do so.

The "anti-incumbent" party is looking more and more attractive.

8
Spin Zone / Re: Hannity PLEASE STOP
« on: January 03, 2018, 04:25:25 PM »
Quote from: Rush on January 03, 2018, 03:33:09 PM
interrupting your guest!!

Oh my God.  He's got this fascinating Iranian guest and he keeps asking him questions and then cutting him off in the middle of the answer. I love Hannity but it drives me nuts when he does this.

Suspect we have vastly differing opinions of Hannity  ;) ... but that is annoying no matter who is the interviewer.

Quote from: Rush on January 03, 2018, 03:33:09 PM
Anyhow this guy just restated what I said in the other thread: the radical Islam rulers are a minority, most of the people in Iran are not religious fundamentalists, hate them and want them gone. They've been persecuting and torturing their own citizens for over two decades.

Do believe that the ruling class in Iran is doomed, just when is hard to predict.  For the most part, I'd agree with your friend is correct in that general populace isn't that enamored of a true, strict Islamic state.

Quote from: Rush on January 03, 2018, 03:33:09 PM
And he said that the uprising is exceeding what he expected and alluded to Trump's promise to support the Iranian people against the Mullahs, UNLIKE OBAMA who basically supported the Mullah's by sending them cash.

As to the "sending them cash", are you referring to the infamous $400MM transfer?

http://fortune.com/2016/08/05/money-america-iran/

Certainly looked bad, and maybe there was justification for the US to keep the money, but is was their's to begin with.

Quote from: Rush on January 03, 2018, 03:33:09 PM
I wonder if it's going to really happen this time, and if so, if the very fact Trump is in the White House and the whole damn world can see Trump isn't going to cow tow to Iran government, unlike Obama, is it possible that is what's giving these people the courage to do this?  They all risk a horrible death by protesting.

I'll reserve judgment on the Presidents response to the protests.  Personally think he should be very careful in that. Doubt if any of the protesters care much about what we think.  You are correct that they are taking a huge personal risk.

9
Spin Zone / Re: Disney princes in 'Snow White,' 'Sleeping Beauty' are sex offenders
« on: January 03, 2018, 03:20:02 PM »
Quote from: nddons on January 03, 2018, 02:12:47 PM
I believe she was a congressional staffer, which means she was not a DOD employee, and this sounds like a meeting between two parts of the government - Congress and the military.  When you have such meetings which may include different priorities, I can see tensions as being high. I can also see an idealistic smarmy staffer right out of college thinking she can tell the military what to do. But of course none of us know that back story if any.

The bolded and underlined part is the key.  Pretty sure that the use of the word "sweetheart" is only part of the story.  After reading the link, methinks a lot of other stuff was involved.

10
Spin Zone / Re: Is It Because Trump Would Benefit?
« on: January 03, 2018, 12:16:54 PM »
Quote from: Jim Logajan on January 03, 2018, 11:29:58 AM
After Mosul was declared free from ISIS in July by the Iraqis, things snowballed as they normally do near the end of major conflicts. Obama would have dragged things out a few more months because of micromanagement but the end result was clear. The people doing the bulk of the fighting and dying weren’t Americans.

Trump deserves credit for rolling back regulations, his supreme court judge choice, nominees for most departments (AG Sessions excepted,) but he gets only a small fraction of the credit for the near defeat of ISIS (they aren’t entirely gone and will live on, unfortunately.)

Would give Trump credit for continuing the support to the Iraqis for the decline of ISIS.  American airpower was instrumental in ISIS defeat.  Do agree they are not, nor will be completely gone.

11
Spin Zone / Re: Climate change
« on: December 19, 2017, 05:48:46 PM »
Quote from: Little Joe on December 19, 2017, 01:57:46 PM
But now, I will say this:  "Nobody believes that climate change is a fairy tale", in spite of what some liberals say.
The climate is changing.  It has always been changing and it will always be changing.
Man probably does have some impact, and 6 billion people are going to have more impact than 6 million.  But to say that climate change is "man made" not reasonable.  If that were the case, then what caused the glaciers?  And then what caused them to recede?

What level of confidence would need to accept that man-made activities are detrimental and accept that action needs to be taken??  10%, 50%, 90%??

Suspect you would agree that it is absolutely true that man-made activities can adversely affect the climate on the micro scale, ask anyone living in Beijing or Mexico City or even in certain areas in the US in the 1950's or 1960's.  Do you find it that far-fetched that if our activities can effect things on the small scale, there is a measurable probability that larger global effects are also likely?

Certainly there are some that believe we are doomed and the sky is falling, conversely, there are some that believe this is all hog-wash.  Personally, believe neither are correct.  Granted, we do not have a full and complete understanding of how man-made activities, climate, solar and geophysical factors all relate to each other, but we are not ignorant of those relationships either.

It comes down to a risk-management decision.  Do we take action based on incomplete (but IMHO, compelling) information -or- take no action, try to gain more insight, understanding that delaying that decision may have very unpleasant consequences and be potentially irreversible.

As has been mentioned, most things in nature have a certain balance , and that is easily disrupted by small events.  The introduction (by man) of a small zebra mussel to the Great Lakes certainly had a huge impact.

12
Spin Zone / Re: Everybody Get In On This!
« on: December 16, 2017, 04:49:55 PM »
Dang!  After reading the title, thought this was going to be a discussion of Bitcoin.

As far as the couple... meh!  lots of weird things in the world... can't see getting all riled up about it.

13
Spin Zone / Re: Will it pass? Tax reform.
« on: December 16, 2017, 04:00:40 PM »
Appears it will, suspect the Republicans will rue the day it does.  Has been over-promised and will under-deliver.

Shame, there was an opportunity for truly meaningful reform of the tax code, didn't happen.  Does settle one thing though, the Republicans are no different than the Democrats as far as controlling the Federal deficit.

14
Spin Zone / Re: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat
« on: December 16, 2017, 03:29:40 PM »
Since this fits in with the "climate change", found this to be interesting:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/365268-hhs-pushes-back-on-report-is-blocking-cdc-from-using-words-like

Would like to hear how this all shakes out.  If they truly have a list of "do not use" words, that's ugly.

15
Spin Zone / Re: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat
« on: December 16, 2017, 03:11:59 PM »
Quote from: Anthony on December 16, 2017, 09:35:57 AM
The emphasis should be on maximizing our domestic fossil fuel resources.

Do we have a shortage?  Haven't noticed any lines at the gas stations or industries closing due to lack of energy.

Quote from: Anthony on December 16, 2017, 09:35:57 AM
Also, protecting our electrical grid which I think is very exposed.  If terrorists want to create severe hardship, and perhaps societal breakdown, just take down the power grid in some large metro areas.  Wait a few weeks, then watch the show.  We can not exist as a society without reliable, electrical power.

How secure do you want it to be and what price increase per kilowatt-hr are you willing to accept?  No argument that our electrical system was not designed to be perfectly secure, all comes down to a cost/benefit equation.  Personally believe that our society is more resistant to the loss of electrical power than you.  Both Katrina and Harvey resulted in pretty widespread power outages, yet, society didn't collapse. 

Quote from: Anthony on December 16, 2017, 09:35:57 AM
Man Made Climate Change is the biggest hoax of our age.  However, millennials have been brainwashed in school, and by the media to believe it is real, and an actual theat.

LOL!  Others may differ in that opinion!  ;)

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