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Messages - bflynn

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4756
Spin Zone / Re: Systemic boycotta a violation of the Civil Rights Act?
« on: April 19, 2016, 10:21:39 AM »
Do you have the statistical data for NC? Could you link to the legal precedent? Does this pass the absurdity test? If opting not to do business in a certain state is statistical discrimination, is nearly every business in the nation violating anti-discrimination laws?

I do not, it's not my profession to track statistics.  I'm repeating an idea that is brewing out there.

Of course there's no problem with every business not having a presence in NC.  But if a company changes and explicitly states that it is because of a policy change, that is a different situation.  See my San Fran example above.

4757
Spin Zone / Re: Systemic boycotta a violation of the Civil Rights Act?
« on: April 19, 2016, 10:18:52 AM »
I think in general there's nothing to it.  But the place that I question has to do with employment. 

Would it be OK for someone to carte blanche not hire anyone from San Francisco because the city supports homosexuality?  I suspect when I put it that way then the reverse question of "Is it OK for a company to carte blanche not hire anyone from North Carolina because of HB2" becomes a more difficult one to deny.

Did Paypal commit a CRA violation by refusing to hire North Carolina people because of HB2?  Did Ringo commit a CRA violation by refusing to entertain fans, keeping in mind that hospitality facilities were the original target of the CRA?  I don't know.  But they are questions I'd like to have answered because there does seem to be a question about them.

Are you strong enough to challenge your own prejudices to arrive at an single principal that goes both ways?

4758
Spin Zone / Re: Melissa v Springsteen
« on: April 19, 2016, 06:59:34 AM »
Could a legal house of prostitution currently hang a "WHITES ONLY" sign out front? Under current law, I think not. It gets sticky (yuck) when asking if an individual prostitute should have the freedom to pick and choose customers on the basis of race, creed, color or sexual orientation.

These things get complicated when trying to balance the rights of each party against the rights of the other.

Could an individual baker pick and choose customers on the basis of X?  We've been told no, even when that X violates the baker's personal beliefs and preferences.

BTW, you left out religion.  There have been about 5-8 other protected classes added by other legislation over the years.

4759
Spin Zone / Re: Melissa v Springsteen
« on: April 19, 2016, 06:50:03 AM »
Prostitutes are neither public accommodations nor obligated to be raped. The comparison is not a good one and the "logic" does not lead us there, anyway.

Privately-owned/operated businesses and buildings. Privately-owned businesses and facilities that offer certain goods or services to the public -- including food, lodging, gasoline, and entertainment -- are considered public accommodations for purposes of federal and state anti-discrimination laws. For purposes of disability discrimination, the definition of a "public accommodation" is even more broad, encompassing most businesses that are open to the public (regardless of type). - See more at: http://civilrights.findlaw.com/enforcing-your-civil-rights/discrimination-in-public-accommodations.html#sthash.B58y5h4o.dpuf

By the interpretations of the Civil Rights Acts, a brothel is a public accommodation.

4760
Spin Zone / Re: Melissa v Springsteen
« on: April 19, 2016, 06:46:52 AM »
Good grief! You just can't let the prostitutes and sex go, can you? It's a lame comparison but hey, you want an answer, so I'll give you my opinion. The legal sex workers in Nevada IMO, should very much be prepared to have same sex encounters. They are sex workers! If they entered that profession for fun and recreation, they are sadly uninformed. Of course the millions of illegal prostitutes operating in this country are outside of the law and so are free to accept, or deny any job.

More specifically, the establishments that hire the sex workers in Nevada should ensure that they have same sex alternatives for anyone that walks in the door. If a particular sex worker is not inclined to perform the duties required, the they should then only be assigned hetero jobs, or let go/not hired. It's a business and should be run as such.

No, I'm not letting it go because no one has admitted where the gay mafia logic takes us

So your position on this is that straight people should be required to have gay sex in the name of equality.

That's the position you want to stand on?

4761
Spin Zone / Re: Green Energy Revealed
« on: April 19, 2016, 06:44:37 AM »
geothermal, solar, wind and hydrodynamic?

What are unrealistic methods of generating electric energy?

I'll continue and take "Energy Unicorns" for 500 Alex.

4762
Spin Zone / Systemic boycotta a violation of the Civil Rights Act?
« on: April 19, 2016, 06:40:50 AM »
I heard an interesting idea advanced yesterday - the question was raised as to whether or not boycotts of a particular state (NC) represent a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Briefly stated, the act says that actions which discriminate or systemically disadvantage a group are illegal.

It's been determined that even if there is no specific action, a statistical violation suffices. For example, if drug sentencing laws punish crack cocaine 10 times more harshly than powder cocaine and crack is almost exclusively used by the black community then the drug sentencing law is in violation of the Civil Right Act.

If a company refuses to hire people from a state, is that a violation of the CRA? Does that disadvantage people of the ethnic background of "North Carolina"?

If a company decides not to do business in a state, does that systemically disadvantage a protected group? Does it statistically disadvantage a certain group of religious people if that group of people are more densely represented in the state?

If a person or organization cancels a meeting or concert, has discrimination occurred?

Keep in mind the statistical method of  disadvantaging a protected group.  You don't have to even intend to do it, it can be accidental.  But once discovered, you have to correct it.

Do you want to soften the CRA in order to excuse boycotts?

And is this the right way to make law?

4763
Spin Zone / Something you'll never hear
« on: April 18, 2016, 07:24:30 PM »
"Trump only won 50% of the vote but he got 90% of the NY delegates.  That isn't fair!  Waaah!"

Not going to happen.

4764
Spin Zone / Re: Melissa v Springsteen
« on: April 18, 2016, 07:21:10 PM »
Of course. Don't like the plain truth so ignore it and make a sarcastic comment to avoid taking on the crux of the matter.
All citizens are entitled to their FAIR SHARE of the Bill of Rights. The idea that this group of lesbians, or that group of cross dressing perverts want to feel special has no legitimate place in the United States constitution.

As usual, your post makes little sense based on what I posted. I think it's even more imperative that you go to Nevada. I think it might really help.

Actually, it made total sense to me.  You made a sarcastic comment to avoid taking on the crux of the matter. 

Let me answer my own question since you don't want to.  By the logic of the LGBT* community, the prostitute should be forced to serve the lesbian.  By their logic, in order to be fair, straight people should be forced to have gay sex.  That is where their logic leads and probably to equally ridiculous positions involving Satanist vs Christians.

The Bill of Rights is about the protection of rights, not the granting of them.  That makes no sense unless you know that the founders understood rights to exist prior to the implementation of government and recognized that without restraint, government will infringe the rights of their citizens.  So they made an agreement that our government would never infringe on rights. 

That the LGBT* community wants to feel special is great for them, but they have no place forcing others to agree with them.  Rights are about freedom, force and compulsion are forms of slavery.  If you support compelling the prostitute to perform lesbian sex for the benefit of "equality" then you have not achieved equality, you have achieved slavery of the prostitute and YOU are the destroyer of rights.  It will eventually come back to bite you.

I trust that in demonstrating where the logic leads, you cannot agree with it.

FWIW, I really have no interest in exploring Nevada that way. 

4765
Spin Zone / Re: Where is Palestine on the map?
« on: April 18, 2016, 07:11:09 PM »
I think the video is a very carefully crafted piece of propaganda.  It fails to mention that Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq invaded Israel on behalf of Palestine and were repelled during the 1948 Arab-Isaeli War and that the creation of the Palestinians were the result of their invasion to start with.  Arabs caused the war to escalate and Palestine lost.  That is what happens during a war, the losing side .... loses.  A magnanimous victor may turn the country back over to a new government but they aren't required to.

68 years later they are still on about being "owed" reparations for losing. 

4766
And this is the government some people want to turn our health care system over to????  >:( :(

Perhaps only the people who want to crash the healthcare system so they can rebuild it from scratch?

4767
Spin Zone / Re: Melissa v Springsteen
« on: April 18, 2016, 08:08:19 AM »
Just go to Nevada and work this out. You have prostitutes on your mind.

Well, I'm not flying right now, so.....

But good?  Not good?

4768
Spin Zone / Re: Melissa v Springsteen
« on: April 17, 2016, 08:07:29 PM »
Let's say someone walks into a graphics and sign shop run by a couple of lesbians and says, "I want a dozen banners that say Lesbians will burn in hell"  Can the shop refuse to do those?

If you want the best example, then a lesbian walks into a brothel in Nevada and demands lesbian sex from a straight prostitute.  Good or No Good?

4769
Spin Zone / Re: Melissa v Springsteen
« on: April 14, 2016, 06:12:18 PM »
You don't make sense. You've just said the baker was forced to provide objectionable service (they weren't; they refused to serve), but that people cannot be compelled. Which is it?

I am not impressed with your point, because I've never contended that there aren't downsides to implementing anti-discrimination laws.  You've identified a couple of them, namely that it's difficult drawing the line, and comes with contentious objection to controlling who businesses can and cannot serve.  I am intrigued by Jeff's point that today's mass information society would prevent reversion to the situation we had when the CRA was fought for and won, thereby eliminating the need for it in the modern world. But I am not as confident as he is that sizeable pockets of hate wouldn't begin to grow around the nation, and I am well aware that my own race may one day be the minority, so this takes deep thought.

[EDIT] - Your comparison to forcing people to go to church is also not apt. The individuals who own the bakery are not forced to appreciate, like, do favors for, give money to, or volunteer for gay people -- as individuals. However, in their business dealings, they are bound by federal and state law. I am confident you can come up with a better comparison, but I thought I'd point this out.

I think I put "forced" in quotes or at least intended to.  Of course you cannot force someone, you can only punish them.

I'm sure I can come up with something better but it doesn't seem necessary.  You understand.

There's a single item that I always come back to - that is individual freedom.  You can never morally compel someone to do something, that is slavery.  Slaves working in the cotton fields didn't have to work, they could also live in chains and be whipped to death.  What's the difference between that and forcing someone to abandon their religion or face financial ruin?  They're both wrong.  It's wrong to punish someone for disagreeing with you.  Saying "sorry, I won't" is not punishment.  Saying "you will or I will whip you" is.


4770
Spin Zone / Re: Melissa v Springsteen
« on: April 14, 2016, 12:34:49 PM »
Two points:

  • This is not happening.
  • They would not be forced, even if it was happening.

Is your position that we return to allowing discrimination by businesses that hold out to the public?

You say "would not be forced to"...but how can you claim that?  If a baker can be forced to provide objectionable service against her personal preferences, why is a prostitute different?

My position is that individuals cannot be forced into providing service they do not want to provide.  You cannot compel them, all you can do it destroy their lives if they don't play your game. 

We already know that you cannot compel people.  Could you be compelled to attend church services every day?  Maybe twice a day?  Do you want your government deciding what people must do and what they must not do? 

You don't make sense and you don't even know it.

Ok. So repeal CRA1964. What do we do about state laws? Any fear that this will encourage pockets of racially pure communities wherein no others can live, work, or play?

I have no fear of it.

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