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Messages - Lucifer

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2296
Spin Zone / Re: Hawkeye Caucuses
« on: February 03, 2016, 09:31:33 AM »
Quote from: Lucifer on February 03, 2016, 09:20:43 AM
Iowa has confirmed my feelings about Cruz.
^^ This.

I like someone who is committed to winning don't get me wrong, but it has to be done on and with principles. 

I know I sound like a Trump supporter, and I may end up being one, but consider his performance in Iowa with essentially no ground game and an unconventional approach, and contrast that with the shenanigans from Cruz to eke out a win in a still very crowded field (before Huckster and Paul dropped out anyway).

Iowa confirmed it for me as well, thanks for the right word - Cruz is not someone I can support.

'Gimp

2297
Spin Zone / Re: OK, we can shut down the Republican Primary race now
« on: February 03, 2016, 04:53:07 AM »
Quote from: Mr Pou on February 02, 2016, 01:10:41 PM
Keep thinking like that and it's off to Room 101 for you... ;)

I don't think so.  I have guns.   ;D

2298
Spin Zone / ObamaCoffee
« on: February 02, 2016, 09:10:30 AM »

2299
Spin Zone / Re: Question for the Trumpkins?
« on: February 02, 2016, 07:38:10 AM »
Quote from: nddons on February 02, 2016, 07:34:40 AM
like when you are a creditor of Trump and he choses to declare bankruptcy and stick it to his suppliers who gave him goods and services and never got paid, or uses the full force of government to take someone's home so he can use it as a limo parking lot.  I sense the Trump sycophants don't see the dark side of this "successful" business man.

Yeah, buy you have to give the guy props for playing the existing rules and laws to his best advantage, and he's even admitted as much when asked about his bankruptcies.

2300
Spin Zone / Re: We're Screwed..............
« on: February 01, 2016, 01:48:29 PM »
Quote from: EppyGA on February 01, 2016, 07:31:11 AM
no matter who ends up in the White House.   The only difference I see, potentially, is the amount of time to get to the end.  If we put another "D" in the White House we'll get there much quicker.  If we put an "R" in the White house we still get there, but maybe a little slower although actions of late do not bare that out.

Someone convince me this is not true and that there actually is a way to pay down $20T in debt and not have it increase from this point on.
$20T is nothing, the unfunded liabilities are an order of magnitude worse and effectively un-repayable.

With the current choices and the systems in place to limit those choices we are screwed, the only question is how long.

If either or both parties can be reclaimed by the people AND someone can actually act as adult supervision it could get better but I am not expecting it.

'Gimp

2301
Spin Zone / Re: Question for the Trumpkins?
« on: February 01, 2016, 10:15:05 AM »
Quote from: JeffDG on February 01, 2016, 10:00:28 AM

I've never asked for a demonstration of Dear Leader Trump as a "true conservative".  I'm simply asking that the person seeking the nomination of the more conservative mainstream party demonstrate a single example of a conservative position when not running for office.  That's an incredibly low bar, yet Dear Leader Trump and his Trumpkins seem wholly incapable of crossing it.
Again, not asking for that.  Just one, only one, example of Dear Leader Trump advocating for a conservative position.
Here's the thing.  The point of asking for a single position by Trump that is conservative is to point out that he is of the Left.  He is a Democrat in the Republican Primary.  The goal is to go into the general with two Democrats (maybe 3 if Bloomberg runs as an "Independent")
Pure bovine scatology.

You set up a strawman argument.  As has been pointed out to you, by your own logic Reagan would be ineligible for your support since he was a Democrat before he was a Republican - he advocated Democrat ideals until he changed his position and campaigned as a Republican.  If Ronaldus Magnus can't make it no way that Trump or Cruz or anyone else can.

Newsflash - we have been picking between Democrat and Democrat "Light" since Bush '41 - how well has that been working out for us?

The reason Trump is attractive to many, as has also been pointed out to you endlessly, is the perception that he takes no shit and can not be 'bought'.

If you review Trump's body of work he is clearly a pro-business candidate, most likely a Fiscal Conservative, Socially Liberal North East Republican.  His previous party affiliation means no more than did Reagan's or anybody else's.

Did he change his position on abortion?  Yes.  Did Cruz change on imigration and ethanol subsidies Syria, etc.?  Yes.  Did Rubio change on immigration and 2A etc.?  Yes.

There are no ideological pure Conservatives in this fight, none.  And if we don't win it means nothing.

Would Cruz be more Conservative than Trump on matters of substance?  Maybe, can't say for sure since both have changed positions - would either be way more Conservative than the alternative - yes.

'Gimp

2302
Spin Zone / Re: Question for the Trumpkins?
« on: February 01, 2016, 09:55:24 AM »
Jeff I have been holding off for a while but you still have not acknowledged that this is a strawman argument. 

As far as I can recall, nobody here, before your question, was calling Trump a true conservative - I know I haven't.

As for people saying one thing when campaigning and doing another if/when elected show me one person who has not 'matured' a position - not Cruz, not Rubio, not any of them.

None of them are ideologically pure or truly principled from a Conservatism standpoint, not one.

I get it, you don't like Trump, the petty name calling (Trumpkins), the endless links to anti-Trump stuff - OK.

I just wish that those of us on the Right would spend more time formulating a strategy of exposing and defeating the failures of the Left rather than forming a circular firing squad to torpedo the top two candidates on our own freaking side. 

Imagine if we spent even half the energy currently being invested in bashing Trump or Cruz on educating the middle and left-of-center voters on who is actually responsible for their suffering and powerfully and positively espousing conservative ideals (no matter how recently acquired).

I think people still totally fail to understand the Trump approach and continue to try and use conventional campaign thinking an conventional campaign tactics on a clearly asymmetric campaign - like sending an Aircraft Carrier after 6 Somali pirates in a dinghy with a 40hp Evinrude.

And as a reminder, I am not a Trump supporter, not supporting his campaign with dollars or time - I am only voting 'FOR' this time, voting against is a waste and keeps the elites in power.  If they can't produce a candidate and campaign I want to vote for I am not voting.  I could vote for Trump if he is the candidate, but that is a ways off yet.

'Gimp

2303
Spin Zone / Re: No Trump. No. Go Away, Trump. Stand Down.
« on: February 01, 2016, 09:41:28 AM »
Quote from: Becky on February 01, 2016, 01:46:36 AM
He is unelectable. 

"Barack Obama reportedly won the 2012 election due to his campaign’s mastery of Big Data. Hillary Clinton and the DNC have access to that data. It cost a fortune to build and they will use it effectively.

The Democrats will make a series of short videos and post them to Facebook, Google, Twitter, You Tube and Instagram. The videos will be microtargeted to the right demographic. Big Data makes it easy to target voters. My view is that the mother lode is on immigration and that the MSM will attack Trump’s (or his subcontractors) use of illegal alien labor in the hotel, golf course, restaurant and construction industries. Social media will amplify this MSM attack. The MSM ignore social media and the use of Big Data because Facebook and Google are eating their lunch on ad dollars. That’s why you don’t read much about how the campaigns use it to win elections.

Trump’s coarse and at times outlandish language and behavior can only drive his unfavorable numbers even higher. Jean Kaufman, for example, has written about Trump and eminent domain here. Kelo is practically a litmus test for conservatives and Trump is on the other side.

Think about what the Dems did to that fine man who is Mitt Romney. When the Dems got finished with Mitt, many thought he was a heartless murderer. A false accusation, to be sure, but it worked. In my opinion, the anti-Trump social media videos will result in a landslide loss for the GOP.

The GOP must win this election. Trump is not electable. Vote for a candidate in the primaries who can win in November. You have a number of good candidates to select."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/01/live-from-council-bluffs-its-donald-trump-2.php
Big difference is Mitt was too soft to fight back, I for one would pay to watch a social media fight between the DNC and Trump Org, it would be like a UFC title match and the result would be very different than what we have been subjected to over the last 30 years.  The power of celebrity that Trump wields is unlike anything the Republicans have fielded since Reagan in terms of being able to go outside the kingmakers and gate keepers and straight to the people.

Just say no to DNC tropes.

'Gimp

2304
Spin Zone / Re: DuckingDonald.com
« on: January 27, 2016, 08:51:59 AM »
Quote from: Lucifer on January 27, 2016, 08:49:43 AM
Meygen Kelly is a media whore, period.  She reminds me of the line in the song "dirty laundry".

Exactly.  It is ALL ABOUT HER and her RATINGS.  Plus her boobs are too small.   

2305
Spin Zone / Re: POA Hangar Talk?
« on: January 25, 2016, 09:50:21 AM »
Quote from: nddons on January 25, 2016, 09:35:52 AM
Agreed. Why give BrYan more reason to act like a pompous ass?

that's like saying not to spit into the ocean...


2306
Spin Zone / Re: Not Trump
« on: January 25, 2016, 07:46:01 AM »
I like Cruz best, and will probably vote for Cruz.  That said, if Trump gets  the nod, I will not only vote for him, but will probably do some work for him too.   Trump may not be a hard right conservative, but I think he is more conservative than Ryan, Mcconnell, Mccain and most of the other republicans.   I think Trump will have the ability to bitch slap the wussies in there now and get them to stand up against the progressive disaster that has been thrust upon us for the last 9 years.  So yes, I'll vote for Trump gladly if he is the nominee.

2307
Spin Zone / Re: Socialism Explained
« on: January 25, 2016, 06:18:51 AM »
Quote from: PaulS on January 22, 2016, 04:06:16 PM
That's not socialism, that's being smart.  Socialism is the centralization of an economy and its production.  Armies, police and fire by necessity fall under the control of government, that isn't socialism and we won't let you redefine the term to make it seem innocuous.   Health care, food production, energy production, manufacturing and pretty much everything else are best left to markets, where the weak producers fall by the wayside and the successful are rewarded. There are example after example of socialist failures throughout history and even in modern times.

Also, things like National Defense and interstate commerce were signed off on by the states in the Constitution.  We accepted those things for the greater good, and because it makes sense.  That other socialist crap doesn't and was NOT AGREED TO by the states.  Remember, we are a collection of states first, not the Oligarchy we've become.

Steingar doesn't understand the Constitution, nor the basic concepts of our country.  He's been brainwashed by his cultural bias, and the faculty lounge. 

2308
Spin Zone / Re: Will This End the Clinton Candidacy?
« on: January 25, 2016, 05:53:40 AM »
Quote from: Kristin on January 24, 2016, 01:45:28 PM

The Constitution is not a magic oracle that answers all questions precisely.  It is a document of principles whose application and interpretation morphs with time.  I know, that is waving more red meat, but it is a reality.  The Constitution has been morphing for about 227 years.  It could not have been otherwise.  As such, everyone brings their viewpoints to the table and argues that the Constitution supports their view.  Cruz of course has an excellent understanding of how previous courts have ruled on these issues.  It is a predicate to arguing your position.  I have yet to find someone who changed their personal political philosophy based on reading some SCOTUS decision or other.

I have no position to fail at other than my opinion of Ted Cruz and that has not failed as it has not changed.  Some times an opinion is just an opinion.  If you can get me to change it, then good on you, but you haven't got close to the mark yet. 

No worries Kristin.  I wouldn't dream of changing your mind on anything.  Is your statement about "waiving red meat" a concession that you know your position on constitutional matters is well beyond the founding principles and original intent of the founders?  The Constitution may not be a magic oracle, but it has severed us well for over 225 years and is very explicit in at least two areas often discussed here.  "....shall not be infringed." and "Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression:  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....".  I see absolutely no ambiguity, yet certain groups of ideologues have done a remarkable job of convincing the ill-informed or those that are too lazy to read the documents that the language is somehow different than written.

The fact that some are scared of religion or guns, doesn't give them the right to violate that which was given to us; which is a remarkable system of government.  Confirming politicians to the Supreme Court (such as Roberts with Obamacare), or allowing the Executive branch to rule by fiat is an affront to the balance of powers the founders gave us.  They gave us a means to make changes in the Constitution, yet some seem to accept these lawless activities as long as they appease their ideology.  That is a slippery slope that will result in a complete failure of our government.  It's sad (and borders on treason) that some are willing to make that trade.

2309
Spin Zone / Re: Will This End the Clinton Candidacy?
« on: January 24, 2016, 10:02:56 AM »
Quote from: Dav8or on January 24, 2016, 09:56:57 AM
Quote from: nddons on January 24, 2016, 08:42:28 AM
Another trait of the liberals is to degrade anyone who is conservative, mock them as being stupid, uneducated and devoid of anything intelligent.

Alinsky's Rules for Radicals #5 and 13:

5.  “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

13.  “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

Seriously, these are tactics I see conservatives using all the time in debate and on forums like these. I've never heard of Alinsky, or his rules.
[/quote]

another tactic is projection.


2310
Spin Zone / Re: Will This End the Clinton Candidacy?
« on: January 24, 2016, 08:42:28 AM »

Quote from: Lucifer on January 24, 2016, 08:13:19 AM
Quote from: YouOnlyLiveTwice on January 24, 2016, 08:07:29 AM


LMAO, it was OK when it was "Constitutional scholar" BH O'Bama.

Another trait of the liberals is to degrade anyone who is conservative, mock them as being stupid, uneducated and devoid of anything intelligent.

Alinsky's Rules for Radicals #5 and 13:

5.  “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

13.  “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

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